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	<title>Comments on: Contextual Numismatics?</title>
	<link>http://www.coinlink.com/News/ancients/contextual-numismatics/</link>
	<description>Rare Coins &#038; Currency News for Numismatic Collectors - Updated Daily</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 20:55:32 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Nathan Elkins</title>
		<link>http://www.coinlink.com/News/ancients/contextual-numismatics/#comment-4295</link>
		<author>Nathan Elkins</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 19:24:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.coinlink.com/News/ancients/contextual-numismatics/#comment-4295</guid>
		<description>It might be interesting for you to know that this panel was planned by my colleague and me early last year before I ever decided to speak out on these issues.  It was only after I learned about developing methodologies on "contextual numismatics" that I decided to examine the trade in further detail.  I think it is a bit disingenuous for Wayne to claim he is supporting "numismatic science" by condemning and excluding contextual study, when he has an inventory of $250,000 he is selling and claims there is no financial motivation between his simplistic and circular rants.  I am concerned about intellectual consequences and the destruction of information that looting and market demand causes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It might be interesting for you to know that this panel was planned by my colleague and me early last year before I ever decided to speak out on these issues.  It was only after I learned about developing methodologies on &#8220;contextual numismatics&#8221; that I decided to examine the trade in further detail.  I think it is a bit disingenuous for Wayne to claim he is supporting &#8220;numismatic science&#8221; by condemning and excluding contextual study, when he has an inventory of $250,000 he is selling and claims there is no financial motivation between his simplistic and circular rants.  I am concerned about intellectual consequences and the destruction of information that looting and market demand causes.</p>
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		<title>By: CoinLink</title>
		<link>http://www.coinlink.com/News/ancients/contextual-numismatics/#comment-4289</link>
		<author>CoinLink</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 17:08:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.coinlink.com/News/ancients/contextual-numismatics/#comment-4289</guid>
		<description>Nathan:

I think it is a bit disingenuous to attempt to decouple the "Call for Papers" from the arguments you have made concerning restrictions on the sale and importation of ancient coins.

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the intent to establish "Contextual Numismatics" into the accepted lexicon of the archeological community, and in doing so, would that not be both the academic and practical justification for supporting the type of legal restrictions you seek?

Clearly you are of the opinion that Wayne has an agenda. I would submit to you that other agendas are also in play. I am 100% in favor of all academic pursuits, conferences and/or inquires into any subject. Differing opinions and challenging discourse is always a positive thing no matter what area of intellectual pursuit. But there is a world of difference between theory and practical solutions, which I guess is where common sense kicks in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nathan:</p>
<p>I think it is a bit disingenuous to attempt to decouple the &#8220;Call for Papers&#8221; from the arguments you have made concerning restrictions on the sale and importation of ancient coins.</p>
<p>Correct me if I am wrong, but isn&#8217;t the intent to establish &#8220;Contextual Numismatics&#8221; into the accepted lexicon of the archeological community, and in doing so, would that not be both the academic and practical justification for supporting the type of legal restrictions you seek?</p>
<p>Clearly you are of the opinion that Wayne has an agenda. I would submit to you that other agendas are also in play. I am 100% in favor of all academic pursuits, conferences and/or inquires into any subject. Differing opinions and challenging discourse is always a positive thing no matter what area of intellectual pursuit. But there is a world of difference between theory and practical solutions, which I guess is where common sense kicks in.</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan Elkins</title>
		<link>http://www.coinlink.com/News/ancients/contextual-numismatics/#comment-4286</link>
		<author>Nathan Elkins</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 15:19:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.coinlink.com/News/ancients/contextual-numismatics/#comment-4286</guid>
		<description>And where does this academic Call for Papers for an academic archaeological conference "translate an academic theory into legal restrictions"?  It does not and that is precisely my point.  I have discussed the material and intellectual consequences relevant to the trade elsewhere, but that has nothing to do with this call for papers, which underscores the personal nature of Wayne's unprovoked attack.  I think we would agree that it is to the benefit of archaeological and numismatic science that a wider academic audience is exposed to the value of developing contextual and interdisciplinary methodologies, which is the purpose of this panel that a colleague and I are co-organizing.  It is quite telling that Wayne failed to mention I was organizing it with another numismatist - obviously I am the object of Wayne's personal ire and not the other and so my colleague's participation in this panel is conveniently forgotten.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And where does this academic Call for Papers for an academic archaeological conference &#8220;translate an academic theory into legal restrictions&#8221;?  It does not and that is precisely my point.  I have discussed the material and intellectual consequences relevant to the trade elsewhere, but that has nothing to do with this call for papers, which underscores the personal nature of Wayne&#8217;s unprovoked attack.  I think we would agree that it is to the benefit of archaeological and numismatic science that a wider academic audience is exposed to the value of developing contextual and interdisciplinary methodologies, which is the purpose of this panel that a colleague and I are co-organizing.  It is quite telling that Wayne failed to mention I was organizing it with another numismatist - obviously I am the object of Wayne&#8217;s personal ire and not the other and so my colleague&#8217;s participation in this panel is conveniently forgotten.</p>
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		<title>By: CoinLink</title>
		<link>http://www.coinlink.com/News/ancients/contextual-numismatics/#comment-4273</link>
		<author>CoinLink</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 09:44:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.coinlink.com/News/ancients/contextual-numismatics/#comment-4273</guid>
		<description>Nathan:
Having reread Waynes article and then following the links to your articles, let me tender a few comments of my own.

As to Waynes article being nothing more than a personal attack and agenda driven, I would leave that to Wayne to respond, although I disagree with your assessment.

However of greater concern and more to the point is not the creation of new academic terminology, but your apparent desire to translate an academic theory into legal restrictions which are both impractical and onerous.

I do not think that anyone who has a serious love for numismatics and respect for history would encourage or condone the commercial looting of archeological sites. In fact I am sure that there are existing laws in place in the respective countries that make this a criminal offence.

And no doubt many countries, particularly in the Balkan states have not and are not devoting the time and resources necessary to enforce these laws. But to place restrictions on the sale and/or possession of ancient coins that do not have a written provenance going back over 30 years is not only unrealistic but punitive in the extreme.

Also I sense in your articles a disconnect between the perceived benefits of the proposed restrictions vs their real world effects.

Taken to its logical conclusion, Cultural property and the needs of academic study would (or could) make virtually every location inhabited by human beings into an archeological site, where all items, big or small, important or not become "contextual" artifacts that require study, cataloging and preservation. Where does it end?

I remember the first time I handled an ancient coin, and yes I will admit to asking myself the same pedestrian questions, "I wonder who handled this coin" and "where has this coins traveled over its lifetime". There was a wonder and excitement about the fantasy and speculation. For whatever reason, it seems that human being have some sort of basic need to collect things, to want to hold and posses items and artifacts that conjure up images of history and things long past. They can give us inspiration and insight along with a deeper appreciation of our connection to a physical place or time.

All things ancient should not be the sole property of academics, or the state, or museums, tucked neatly away from prying eyes and "untrained minds"

Somewhere along our travels, certain people cam up with the idea that "Cultural heritage" and artifacts need to be concentrated in the locations of their origin, that somehow the dissemination of this items lessens ones nationalistic identity or has robbed one of their history. To the contrary, I strongly believe that like ideas, dissemination of cultural items should be not only allowed but encouraged, as a uniting force allowing peoples of all countries and backgrounds to appreciate and posses things from far away and from another cutures. It strengthens our bonds between one another and promotes respect for both our differences and commonality.

Life does not take place in a vacuum, nor does history.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nathan:<br />
Having reread Waynes article and then following the links to your articles, let me tender a few comments of my own.</p>
<p>As to Waynes article being nothing more than a personal attack and agenda driven, I would leave that to Wayne to respond, although I disagree with your assessment.</p>
<p>However of greater concern and more to the point is not the creation of new academic terminology, but your apparent desire to translate an academic theory into legal restrictions which are both impractical and onerous.</p>
<p>I do not think that anyone who has a serious love for numismatics and respect for history would encourage or condone the commercial looting of archeological sites. In fact I am sure that there are existing laws in place in the respective countries that make this a criminal offence.</p>
<p>And no doubt many countries, particularly in the Balkan states have not and are not devoting the time and resources necessary to enforce these laws. But to place restrictions on the sale and/or possession of ancient coins that do not have a written provenance going back over 30 years is not only unrealistic but punitive in the extreme.</p>
<p>Also I sense in your articles a disconnect between the perceived benefits of the proposed restrictions vs their real world effects.</p>
<p>Taken to its logical conclusion, Cultural property and the needs of academic study would (or could) make virtually every location inhabited by human beings into an archeological site, where all items, big or small, important or not become &#8220;contextual&#8221; artifacts that require study, cataloging and preservation. Where does it end?</p>
<p>I remember the first time I handled an ancient coin, and yes I will admit to asking myself the same pedestrian questions, &#8220;I wonder who handled this coin&#8221; and &#8220;where has this coins traveled over its lifetime&#8221;. There was a wonder and excitement about the fantasy and speculation. For whatever reason, it seems that human being have some sort of basic need to collect things, to want to hold and posses items and artifacts that conjure up images of history and things long past. They can give us inspiration and insight along with a deeper appreciation of our connection to a physical place or time.</p>
<p>All things ancient should not be the sole property of academics, or the state, or museums, tucked neatly away from prying eyes and &#8220;untrained minds&#8221;</p>
<p>Somewhere along our travels, certain people cam up with the idea that &#8220;Cultural heritage&#8221; and artifacts need to be concentrated in the locations of their origin, that somehow the dissemination of this items lessens ones nationalistic identity or has robbed one of their history. To the contrary, I strongly believe that like ideas, dissemination of cultural items should be not only allowed but encouraged, as a uniting force allowing peoples of all countries and backgrounds to appreciate and posses things from far away and from another cutures. It strengthens our bonds between one another and promotes respect for both our differences and commonality.</p>
<p>Life does not take place in a vacuum, nor does history.</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan Elkins</title>
		<link>http://www.coinlink.com/News/ancients/contextual-numismatics/#comment-4229</link>
		<author>Nathan Elkins</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Apr 2008 15:35:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.coinlink.com/News/ancients/contextual-numismatics/#comment-4229</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Unfortunately, Wayne Sayles' unprovoked attack on me here only reflects his own agenda.  He has an axe to grind against archaeologists and people who study material "in context," since he prefers to promote the treatment of ancient objects as simple curios as a greater science.  I have spoken out about the material and intellectual consequences of collecting undocumented ancient coins indiscriminately (e.g. http://www.savingantiquities.org/feature_coins.php) and this attack is purely personal.  Elsewhere, I have suggested constructive dialogue between collectors and archaeologists/academic numismatists and a hiatus on these sort of personal attacks (http://safecorner.savingantiquities.org/2007/12/towards-forum-for-constructive-dialogue.html),  but Wayne apparently prefers baiting, obfuscation, and harsh rhetoric to constructive discussion and collaboration.  At least two other collectors have positively publicly commented on the call for papers, despite Wayne's vociferous condemnation of it. http://digitalhn.blogspot.com/2008/03/contextual-numismatics.html and http://curatorandcollector.com/?p=139.  It is unfortunate that Wayne, who is apparently a figure of some note in the collecting community, prefers buffoonery like this instead of openness to developing scientific methodologies and open dialogue between various interest groups.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unfortunately, Wayne Sayles&#8217; unprovoked attack on me here only reflects his own agenda.  He has an axe to grind against archaeologists and people who study material &#8220;in context,&#8221; since he prefers to promote the treatment of ancient objects as simple curios as a greater science.  I have spoken out about the material and intellectual consequences of collecting undocumented ancient coins indiscriminately (e.g. <a href="http://www.savingantiquities.org/feature_coins.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.savingantiquities.org/feature_coins.php</a>) and this attack is purely personal.  Elsewhere, I have suggested constructive dialogue between collectors and archaeologists/academic numismatists and a hiatus on these sort of personal attacks (http://safecorner.savingantiquities.org/2007/12/towards-forum-for-constructive-dialogue.html),  but Wayne apparently prefers baiting, obfuscation, and harsh rhetoric to constructive discussion and collaboration.  At least two other collectors have positively publicly commented on the call for papers, despite Wayne&#8217;s vociferous condemnation of it. <a href="http://digitalhn.blogspot.com/2008/03/contextual-numismatics.html" rel="nofollow">http://digitalhn.blogspot.com/2008/03/contextual-numismatics.html</a> and <a href="http://curatorandcollector.com/?p=139." rel="nofollow">http://curatorandcollector.com/?p=139.</a>  It is unfortunate that Wayne, who is apparently a figure of some note in the collecting community, prefers buffoonery like this instead of openness to developing scientific methodologies and open dialogue between various interest groups.</p>
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